Progressives Against Sam Seder & David Pakman

Progressives Against Sam Seder & David Pakman

So this story is going to be partially funny.
Uh, and it's going to be partially serious because there are funny things to talk about
here and serious things to talk about. Um, there are numerous social media groups
and accounts and pages targeting both the David Pakman show and the majority report
would Sam Cedar claiming to target us from the left, which have cropped up recently.
One such group. This is just an example. Okay. Just to give you a sense of what I'm talking
about. One such group as a Facebook group called Progressive Against Sam Cedar and David
Packman. And there are some funny things on page. For example, if you look at the header
image, uh, a cartoons of Salmon, I a word bubble from Sam saying Joe McCarthy, 2020
and me saying yes please. Then there's another group called Anti Mccarthyism, Progressive
Unity Against Sam Cedar and David Packman. And of course there are endless Twitter accounts
which I mute when I see them because I don't have time for them. And Youtube comment movements,
pylons, which are, um, lately targeting Sam and me from the so called progressive indie
media. But sometimes they're targeting more people
too. So sometimes salmon, I will be targeted, uh, including Kyle Kalinsky from secular talk
as being part of the problem. Sometimes Kyle is part of the solution, but Sam and I are
part of the problem or sometimes they will uh, include Tom Hartman as part of the problematic
leftwing media along with Sam and with me. But sometimes Tom Hartman is the right type
of progressive. He's on the good side of the line, but Sam and I are on the wrong side
of the line. But the point here is that who is on which side of the line changes and it
depends hugely on which so called progressives are drawing that line and that's not hugely
surprising. Now I'm trying to think of like how do I even start with this? Because when
you see something like this progressive's United against David Packman and Sam Cedar,
there are a bunch of obvious questions that we should be asking. Question one is, are these groups really people
who are on the left who dislikes salmon, who disliked me or are they rightwing astroturf?
That's a question to be asked. Second, who is it that these so called progressive support?
If Sam and I are the problems who are the right progressive's that should be supported
occurring according to the people who are creating these groups, targeting salmon targeting
me. And thirdly, what does it mean about the progressive movement? That more and more stuff
like this type of infighting and targeting is cropping up. So here's the common trends
I'm seeing when you look at the Anti David and Sam pages, number one, many of them have
a ton of pro Jimmy Dore content posted as examples of the right kind of leftism. Okay.
So if we look at progressive's against Sam Theater and David Pakman, a whole bunch of
the posts are Jimmy Dore Clips, which I believe is meant to imply that Jimmy's the right kind
of progressive in Sam and I are the wrong types of progressive. So right off the bat you start to get a picture
of this anti Sam and David Movement, um, as as at least partially unpro Jimmy Dore Movement.
Often these pages, and particularly the Twitter accounts also have a lot of pro Tulsi gabard
content. If you don't know Tulsi Gabbard, she is a presidential candidate currently.
Polling about 0.6% I believe. So that's another sort of trend that exists and then typically
there's a lot of uh, Russia gate denialism that is in a lot of these anti David Anti
Sam pages along the lines of we can't believe anything molar says other than when Mueller
said no collusion. But all this stuff about obstruction and election interference and
wikileaks is involvement from the Mueller report. That stuff we don't believe, but we
can definitely trust Mueller that Trump did nothing wrong. So I'm not going to go back
and attack any particular wing of the left. I'm not going to accuse certain leftists of
not really being left because that would be furthering the problem that these groups are
sort of indicating exists. Here's my main point. If the left continues to do this, the
left is going to continue to fail on many fronts. And I brought this up on the Joe Rogan
program two weeks ago and a bunch of people misunderstood what I was saying. When people
come to me and they say, David, what's the real problem with the left? It's not SJWs.
Okay. It's not campus free speech suppression, it's not toxic identity politics. Those things
exist and they do exist in bits and pieces on the left and I call them out when I see
them. But the real potential problem on the left is defining the left so rigidly that
it will fail to accomplish anything major because it will keep out way too many people
who share most of our goals. And there's a really good article by Joshua's
sites and politico from June 1st called progressive's should read progressive history so they don't
blow it this time. And it points out that there are major problems to solve right now
in American society, in the American economy, but if progressive's want to achieve change,
we need to understand how past movements have succeeded. And the article looks at the progressive
movement of the early 19 hundreds and it looks at the new deal coalition of the 1930s and
it also looks at the conservative coalition of the seventies and eighties which was really
successful for conservatives. And I won't go into the specifics of the three movements
right now, but the general thing they did right is they were inclusive of people who
disagreed on some of what should be the agenda, but they agreed on enough of the important
stuff that they were able to get really important change to happen. And that's my real concern about the progressive
movement right now, and I'm going to talk about this at the end of the week in audience
questions. The lines are being drawn too narrowly and people who could work together on, for
example, 70% of their agenda or 80% of their agenda are going to end up doing nothing because
they're concerned about making pages, targeting other people on the basis of the 10 or 20%
that they disagree on one example, okay, small but growing is this divide on the left between
social democracy and socialism. It's a great debate. Philosophically. It's a great debate
economically. I'm glad to have that debate. Social Democracy versus socialism. I've and
I've engaged in that debate on the show. The US is not going to become socialist anytime
soon and before the u s will have a reasonable possibility of becoming socialist. It's going
to have to move significantly in the direction of social democracy. The reforms that are possible in the immediate
are reforms that are social democracy reforms, which should appeal to the actual socialists,
socializing, healthcare, raising the standard of living for the bottom via taxation at the
top and to financial transactions that add no value to the economy and education. What
is the point in redirecting energy away from making those changes which both Social Democrats
and Socialists agree on? In order to debate and draw the lines between, you're either
with the socialists or you're against us. This is stupid. Okay. The left will lose if
that's what they do. Let me give another example that applies to me. I am against intervention
in Venezuela 100% I've said it a hundred times, but I also think that the Chavez Maduro regimes
have been terrible for Venezuela. Okay? We agree on the left almost 100% about being
against military intervention in Venezuela. And yet when I bring up by, by the way, I
don't like Maduro and Chavez and here's why and I think that they have been disastrous
plunderers for Venezuela. All of a sudden I'm on the wrong side when
it comes to the intervention piece and people are ignoring the fact that I'm right here
with you. I'm against military intervention in Venezuela. Let's work together on that
because the debate over Chavez and Maduro has less, uh, in terms of immediate consequences
then that about American intervention in Venezuela. So let's table some of the less immediately
relevant discussions. Let's actually get stuff done that we all agree about and let's not
draw the lines too rigidly because that's the problem I see on the left. Not Free speech
campus stuff or SJWs or whatever those problems exist. I call them out the relatively small,
but anyway, have fun with the Anti Sam Cedar, Anti David Pakman groups. But you are doing
damage to the movement. Unfortunately.

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26 thoughts on “Progressives Against Sam Seder & David Pakman

  1. They're not actually progressives you are part of a movement. There's going to be more push back. I really hope you keep educating. I found you Kyle kulinski The Young Turks and many others. I was starting to worry there was no one out there with logic and reason.

  2. Gabbard (the only Republican democratic candidate) and Russia denial? These are obviously Russian or Jimmy trolls / bots, right?

  3. Unfortunately, I've actually read some progressive history. Working with liberals like you is how we always end up losing. I like how you even implicitly threatened it already, that if we won't cooperate with you, then you'll stop supporting things like Healthcare reform and anti-imperialism and end up siding with conservatives. Like always! No left unity!

  4. I understand the hate for Seder, mostly because of his BS talking points against Yang. But I don't get anyone hatin' on Pakman.

  5. Hmmm…if this thing is not a joke, then I beg the question: Is it a coincidence that the two of them are Jewish and and there's a pro Jimmy Dore crowd attached to it? Jimmy Dore's about 'Russia did nothing wrong, Israel is behind it all', him a Abby Martin. another one of their favorite catch phrases is: 'Maduro is a Democratically elected president and things are not so bad in Venezuela and their economic problems started only after Trump imposed sanctions'. Not saying Jimmy himself is behind it, but Jimmy's stances of the aforementioned issues are such that they make him the perfect 'antagonist' to the scheme of some unscrupulous external agent bent upon dividing the Left.

  6. I heard David Dole (Rational National) call into Sam's show the other day. He was trying to make peace between Seder and Dore. It didn't go well.
    The thing is, I watch most of the progressive channels, but I'm able to use my own filter to judge which parts I agree with and which I don't.
    Bottom line, I don't agree with anyone 100%.

  7. Shots fired. as you mention it, i know in this case it's tyt here but someone is plainly lying here, which is it?

  8. I understand why people would be upset with both of your stations for being against Tulsi Gabbard for no decent reason, but that would also include TYT. I don't understand why anyone would single you and Sam Seder out specifically. But in any case, I am terrified by the progressive in-fighting I've been experiencing. For instance, I keep hearing people refer to "Tulsi supporters" and "Bernie supporters" as if we're no longer on the same side. There's the infuriating idea that "Tulsi supporters"–which started here–that suggests we're blindly worshiping her without regard for her actual record. It's a smear against your own viewers, and other networks have taken it up. Why alienate a portion of your own audience over a simple disagreement?

  9. Jimmy seems like the type of person who would argue with himself if he was locked in a room with a carbon copy.

  10. I often move on and never watch all of a Majority Report video. Sam takes too long to make his point. He gets sidetracked rambling on so I just move on.

  11. Jimmy Dore is getting air time on Russia Today quite a bit lately. Hmm I wonder whether the anti Russiagate propaganda is the real point here @David Pakman

  12. They most likely are tankies. These people need to be black listed from the “progressive” sphere. Not a good look when these people are calling themselves progressives yet they support Iran, Russia, and Venezuela because America bad or something. Maybe it’s time to move away from “progressive” as a label Pakman. I unsubbed all “progressive” youtubers (Besides Pakman) because they are all toxic as fuck. The pro Maduro stuff really soured me to “progressive” politics, as well as the tacit support for socialism and communism which just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

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